It's rear. Jun 7, 2018 #8 . on my garage floor for future reference. Finding The BBSS Front Spring Pre-Loading Or do you just mean an old, worn-out strut? Intercomp 102030 5X5 Hub-Mounted Corner Weight Scale. Corner-Weight Distribution Bickel points out that corner-weight distribution refers to the amount of weight carried by diagonally opposed pairs of wheels. The advantage to wedge is that the left rear tire carries more load, so the car drives off the turns better. In April 2013 I corner balanced the S for the first time in The springs OTOH exhibit little or no friction loss when compressed or extended. Do this at every wheel. Set them to hot pressures is the norm as I understand it. Hub stands are a great idea just for ease of access, but removing friction is an added benefit. . Please post on the appropriate 4m forum. Wheel Offset Changes. The more power a car has, the more that static weight over the drive wheels helps acceleration off the corners. Classic Truck. Today's oval on each wheel to speed shock adjustment. That is why a stiffer right rear spring makes the car looser. Knowing those numbers will allow you to set and/or check your ride heights if the driver isn't around by adding the difference to the intended ride heights. Crossweight is calculated by adding the RF and LR weights and then dividing that sum by the total weight. The salt acts as tiny ball bearings and will allow the tires to If your car's diagonal corner weights are not equal then its handling will be unbalanced--it will turn better in one direction than in the other (all other things being equal). Take care that the car does not accidently slide off the scale pads. Note the "Conditions and Changes Made" But this is almost never the case. If one leg is longer or shorter than the others, the table will rock and thus be unstable. "Springs and chassis components can be adjusted to push down on one rear wheel," Bickel said. To test this, put the car on scales, and just tip the setup board and see how much the numbers change. 2. 2. 2023 Motorsport Marketing. Took it to be corner weighted and it transformed the car in to a front runner that the drivers raved about. This makes the cornering force balanced from left to right and offers the best performance overall. It's a lot of So we multiply the difference, or 4.2 percent, by 1.12 and we get 4.7 rounds of right side change to the spring pre-load, or 43/4 rounds. shouldn't match the front to the rear but your left front and right front shocks I plugged in a bunch of numbers into my calculator and it all checks out. Also double check that the When dealing with advanced suspension tuning, some people may adjust the corner weights in a manner to impact the way the car handles based on the tracks layout. typically not concerned with bite and wedge delta because they usually B. And there is a methodology, or possibly several that will make this routine easier. I was surprised to find, contrary to my experience, that the Vette came is very close to itsexpected weight as soon as it was let down on the scales, without having to take bind out of the suspension. the driver seat and reconnect them so there's no preload on them. The typical goal in corner weighting cars is to make the cross weights equal. Left Front and Right Rear but you'll have to test to find out what works best. Dirt or asphalt? over All 4 scales must be within 1/8 of an inch. Recheck air pressure often to assure ride heights stay consistent. I used a laser level to project a horizontal another. Unless you have some kind of stupid hyper-critically damped NASCAR type dampers this isn't really necessary. But stagger is not a good idea on a road course or autocross either, where the ideal is 50-percent cross-weight and no stagger. Oval Track. It is best to get 50 percent left-side weight when possible. Right Front weight: Left Rear weight: I don't like the lower weight ratings and plastic scale pads of proform. The driver is optional based on No. so the suspension can settle and unbind. Cross-weight is also called wedge: If the percentage is over 50 percent, the car has wedge; if below 50 percent, the car has reverse wedge. If you think you need to make crossweight changes, remember the amount of change per adjuster number, in our case it was 7/8 turns per percent of crossweight at the right sides (left sides again are times the multiplier), and make even percent changes, such as a half percent or whole percent. Yeah, I'm a little puzzled by my result when I let me car down on my new scales as well. For high banked tracks, the front spring rate must be increased and it is often necessary to. If we subtract the existing ride heights from the desired, we have front low by 0.0625-inch and the rear high by 0.4375-inch. and Left Rear. Because we desire 52 percent, we will need to increase the crossweight percent. Just follow the steps and you can set the pre-load in the fixture to where it will be very close in the car. Here are some setup tips that will help you really get the most of of your Slash: > Keep it clean. traction or bite in left turns. If you want to raise the front of the car then extend only the On my ZX2SR my cross weight was consistently in the 49% range. % 50% is optimal, Wedge = Muscle Car. In the above example, to go from 52 percent to 50 percent cross-weight, try lowering the right front and the left rear one-half turn on the weight jack bolt or spring perch while raising the left front and right rear the same amount. Since oval On oval track cars, cross-weight is usually used in conjunction with stagger (where the right rear tire is larger in circumference than the left rear tire) to balance handling. The left side changes, of course, will be 4.75 times the multiplier for front or rear. Also double check that the upgrading our street stock suspension part 2 the rear end. Wedge is a term used in the the front ramps then jack up the rear and lower it onto the rear scales. If the driver lifts early but still has a fairly good amount of roll speed into the corner, there probably isn't much brake being used. Wedge Delta is equal to (Right Static weight distribution is the weight resting on each tire contact patch with the car at rest, exactly the way it will be raced. I was booked for 100 laps split across four or five sessions. Caster and Caster split can be adjusted to find more speed and stability. I overshot by a little so I raised the left rear spring perch by 1/2 to get the desired corner weights your ride height will change. So, they don't care if the scales are level, they will get what they want from unlevel scales. Ideal weight percentages: Front - 43-45% Left - 53-56% Cross - 52-54% What do these numbers mean? What you're saying makes sense, but I can't explain why it took so long for my car to settle into its final weight reading. Did you mean it was off several hundred pounds per corner? If most of the important turns on your "If your car is really tight or really loose during hot laps, you have to take a look at the things that are going to make the biggest difference. (i.e., if we move the RF adjuster two rounds, then we will move the LF adjuster 2.5 rounds.) bite, a negative value means the Right Rear is favored. Here is a screenshot with some random-ass corner weights. shocks set to same length left to right (front to rear will be different). Now that we have established the ride heights, our weights could be anywhere. I race in a spec class, so everyone is using the same equipment. To keep it clear in my head, I think of the car as a four-legged table sitting on a mattress. Motor: 550 or 540 motors only. TVW - (RF + LF + LR) = 603. Adjusting the sway bar is time consuming and questionable unless it is really stiff. The tiles & salt seemed to help because the weight never No, not as in the law, but in being legal in tech. end-link into the anti-roll bar's hole. Choose your ride heights before you measure and/or redesign your front geometry and then maintain those chosen ride heights. For example, if your initial setup is 52 percent cross-weight, and you want 50 percent cross-weight, lowering the right front or left rear corner will decrease cross-weight percentage. Remember that there are several ways you can maintain ride heights at the track, with loaded spring length measurements, chassis to lower control arm or chassis to rear axle tube measurement are some of those. The nose weight is simple to remember the tricky ones are - cross and left side adjustments. Splash = 2-3 gallons, 1/2 can = 5-6 gallons, 1 can = 11-12 gallons, 1 1/2 cans = 17-18 gallons, 2 cans = full tank. To find RR weight: In this example, we will adjust the crossweight percentage on a sample car with different rate springs. the scales. I My starting cross weight was 50.6%, I was off 7lbs want balanced turning in both directions. Corner weighting can be a complicated process for you to complete without someone who is experienced helping you. tires. One of the most important aspects of racing is having a good handling balance. positive Bite and positive Wedge Delta. Get the numbers right and the percentages will follow. 1. CG Height Calculator, Cross Weight % = My car has solid/spherical bushings everywhere, so there should be very little bind from them. The front will show close to 60%. lowered onto the scales the tires will need to spread out to unbind the Astrut with its innards removed? Corner weighting your car is more traction or bite in left turns. If the car understeers or oversteers in only one direction, check the cross-weight percentage. Be sure to have the weight of the driver in the seat. Plus it sounds like street and autocross pressures are about the same stagger front to rear, so it really shouldn't have a noteworthy impact. Bearings, like sealed roller bearings,solid bushings, or spherical joints. 4m.net - The Most Opinionated Racing Message Board In The Universe. For this exercise, we will just be changing the pre-load on the springs to redistribute the loads, or weights on the four corners. , = change needed to get to target weight, Cross Weight = The last event in the rain i actually had the rears up to around 38. Just to confirm the theory I checked the corner weights with center of gravity (CG) height by using this page: you don't use Microsoft Excel. Make sure the tires are centered on the scales. "two linoleum tiles & salt" technique to allow the tires to slide on the scales I lowered the right front spring perch 1 full turn (equates to by about 1/4 inch so most of my adjustments were positive--they raised the car. All of these factors play a huge part in what each corner of the car will weigh. When I weigh my cars I try not too overthink all this binding stuff. Here's how we find the multipliers. Funny. 1. It is important that you complete the corner weighting process before doing an alignment. Taking the time and making the effort always pay dividends. As long as the tires have near "1 to 1 traction" with the ground, you should set up your race car like an asphalt car (see the Chassis Set-up At The Rear For Cornering page). You can see the article here: The "Corner Weight" (virtual scales) now determines the ride height and/or corner weigh . Now that's pretty cool! You can be appropriate such as making small adjustments to all 4 wheels--add preload to First some baselines. I just back all of the damping off totally. The important thing to remember is that the laws of physics are the same whether you are racing on an oval or a If the person reduces the force with which he's pressing against the ceiling, the weight read by the scales will decrease. Wedge Delta can also be thought of Calculator, I used these scales to weigh the car: can help us get our setup right with less testing. turns. this excellent article: work but in the end it's worth it. what he means is he's adding weight to the left rear and right front Bite = Left Rear - Right Rear and a positive value means the So, deviating from those numbers will mean you have a design other than what was intended for the car. Shock Angle-measure the angle of the shock installed and at ride height. Right Front = An analogy which is commonly used is to imagine that the car is a four-legged table. Do youhave recommendations for such corner weight percentages? If you decide to have a tuning shop complete the corner weighting and assuming you are not driving the car to the shop, disconnect the rear sway bar yourself to save the shop time and you money. You can also use this online calculator to compute your corner Positive front toe (tires pointing in) generally is desirable on lightweight cars that don't have a lot of shifting weight, such as go-karts. 2. Thanks for posting this. Wheel offsets are very important. Left Front weight: Prepare the car. are favoring the left rear tire for better acceleration out of left To properly corner weight the car, it is necessary to add weight to the drivers seat which is approximately equal to the weight of the driver (or have the driver sit in the car). anti-roll bar with the end-link adjusted so it's easy to insert the For that level of caring, I wouldn't think too much about it. front left and turn and ended up with a perfect 50.0% cross weight. We use our multiplier to move each adjuster so that the preload changes are equal and the ride height will remain close to the same. Wedge Delta and what values work best for certain tracks and conditions The tiles I ZJjtX0xiMzjbfb86GLC7qpXBkrSlFeSNVds8hGW514OXUKSxf6kBDIneIL3TzHQV. This adds pressure to that end of the car just like putting the paper wedge underneath the table leg. 45. If you have 50/50 weight distribution to begin with the note that crossweighting will do the exact same thing. The third thing I look for to make at the track dirt race car handling decisions is where the driver lifts the gas going into the corner, and the overall entry speed. Make sure all of the weights are in the car including fuel, oil, battery, cooling water, hood, and so on, or weights that will simulate those. Calculate the average front and rear desired ride heights. Since oval Before putting your car on the scales you need to power up Currently, dirt car racing involves a left-hand weight measurement of 53.5-55, along with a wedge between 75-125 pounds. I use this technique and it We run a fixed chassis meaning no suspension and the Briggs lo206 so we aren't sliding it around the corner but tracking almost like an asphalt Kart. if you have any of the scales connected improperly (i.e. balancing see my corner balance how-to and If you don't have adjustable end links on your Right Front tires. Jacking weight will not alter the left side or the rear percentages. That's all total speculation though. Lowering the cross weight does the opposite of raising the cross weight. I dont get this. Right handers vs left handers feel quite a bit different-I run out of suspension on right handers much more often, and on left handers the car loves having me hanging out over the inside of the contact patches working the corner. You can drop the front end slightly or raise the rear end for more aggressive turn-in. positive Bite and positive Wedge Delta. It still pays to be thoughtful about weight placement fore and aft in your car. Or maybe I read the post wrong. We run an extremely high banked 1/5 mile clay oval in Alabama that is always wet and low bite. We have 4.1875 front and 5.1875 rear. We now take five rounds out of the RR and add five rounds times the rear multiplier, or 2.0 5 = 10 rounds to the LR. Some racers like to take matters into their own hands-and that's OK. right swapped). Before putting your car on the scales you need to power up This gets very tedious, given the number of iterations it typically takes to get the corner weights right. For a car with a 17.5-inch lower control arm length and a ball joint-to-spring mount distance of 2.5 inches, you divide 17.5 by 15 (17.5-2.5) to get 1.1667 and then multiply that by itself to get 1.3611. 13. You're better off not corner balancing the car than doing it on an unlevel does not change when a driver is added. Shock binding is not caused by the fluid (which is only a factor withfluid movement through orifices/valves), but from the seals, which possess both static and dynamic friction. In almost all cases, the loss of cornering performance in one direction is greater than the gain in the other direction. On the other hand, it drives really, REALLY good for being setup by this idiot behind the keyboard, and I really don't wanna spoil a good setup by chasing after a perfect setup at least not yet. If you know the front, side, and crossweight percentages, then you can calculate the numbers. important for cars with upgraded (stiffer) sway bars because they can exert a W. William18 New member. I added the should have their spring perches in the same spot and your left rear and right In any case, only make one spring change at a time and re-establish the ride height at that corner, then change the other spring(s). Ask your chassis builder or establish what you want and decide that these will be what you run from now on. few inches several times on the scales before each reading though just for good see on the right side of the spreadsheet's "Target Corner Weights" section that but tend too love the 1/2 miles.I just cant figure out a way too get these. If you do have adjustable end . If you're setting up a FWD race car, and you can see this in historical VW Golf or original Minis, they often lift and inside rear-wheel. Grassroots Motorsports Understanding Corner Weights In oval racing you always run more weight on the LR. Of course you can add too For road racing and autocrossing, the ideal left weight percentage is 50 percent. By lengthening or shortening a leg, it increases or decreases weight on the other legs. of the scale to take a reading. I dropped my integra off at edge to have this done today. Look at the car as a chair with a short leg, if you want it to turn equally well left and right aim for 50/50 diagonal. You can change ride heights later on, but remember that your front moment center geometry will change and your rear geometry will also change, including link angles and pinion and third link angles, as well as rear alignment in some cases. 3. right swapped). for the front and rear sway bars and installed them with my girl friend sitting Record each spring rate. over). corner weight calculations: Corner_Balance.zip That is why it gets tighter. 19. . This was my first adjustment: Four turns of positive coil < Enter your corner weights in pounds or kilos and click 'Calculate'. I'm anxious to see what Proform says about my experience. I recommend adding an eighth or slightly more to the lowest corner just to make sure you pass tech. extra weight is on the left rear and right front tires which gives them more Drag Racing. %Right Weight = When I drive down a strait road the I can clearly feel that the drivers side is heavier over bumps expansion joints and dips and the like. RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup & Tuning Guide (21.5, dirt oval, GFRP, Custom Works, Purpose Built) - YouTube 0:00 / 43:10 Dirt Oval Setup & Tuning Tutorials RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup &. The less fuel in the tank the tighter the chassis will become. Left front weight + right rear weight = right front weight + left rear weight. Today's oval 35 psi hot tire pressure target . In our example we will be using the same method with corrections for different rate springs. 4 Establish the exact weight change in percent that a given spring height change will make and record that number. A perfectly corner balanced car will handle the same when turning left and right, and will maximize the tire contact area on all four corners. 6 Check your ride heights and make small adjustments for ride height and crossweight percentage if need be to finalize your setup. We don't ever move weight around to get crossweight, but we do move weight to change our front-to-rear percent or the side percent of total weight. Corner Weight Calculator This is used to calculate the corner weight and Wedge. On an average workbench/table that's close to level, it's probably < 3g difference per corner, which is within the tolerance of stiction / binding in a touring car. This approach is commonly used in oval track racing. I made a 4-scale system for my off-road cars. I put the car on the scales and input the four corner extra weight is on the left rear and right front tires which gives them My shocks are double adjustable, as many will be when at this level of prep. On oval track cars, cross-weight is usually used in conjunction with stagger (where the right rear tire is larger in circumference than the left rear tire) to balance handling. Basically - after you finish the set up routine, the car goes in the hauler. I highly recommend using a laser level to confirm the 4 scales are level to one Always try to start with the track bars first. If most of the important turns on your anti-roll bars then leave them connected. For our example we use: LF 200, RF 250 - 250 200 = 1.25 multiplier for the front. Crossweight is of no concern to the track officials. To increase left-side weight, move weight as far to the left as possible. But if you corner and the inside wheel slows to 150rpm, the outside wheel will spin at 250rpm. Keeping track of Bite and Cross weighting is crap for road courses and only applies to turning one direction OR if the car is about 50/50 F/R weight to begin with. The coiloversare typically mounted parallel to the centerline above the driver footwell. The problem with this option is simply that hub stands aren't cheap - the lowest priced ones I've found are $849, kind of a lot of money for something most people wouldn'tdo all that often. To find LF weight: The crossweight percent will have changed to, say 55.4 percent. More stagger usually loosens the handling in left turns, so more cross-weight is used to tighten it up. Motion Ratio of the lower control arm. For Oval guys I suggest talking to your local kart shop who knows the tracks you run on for a suggested starting point. Jun 7, 2018 #5 . For pure race cars this isnt a consideration. renting/borrowing/buying some scales and corner balancing your car. I use 2x6 wood planks as ramps to drive the car onto Even if you pay someone a small amount of money for their help, it will be far better than buying the scales yourself. All 4 scales must be within 1/8 of an inch. Guess I have to try it. I vary mine alot depending on conditions, so should I sayset them where I would at the beginning of an average day for autoX? cars through the corners and thats where there eating me up. racers only turn left we can balance the car for better grip in left Once the corner balance is complete put someone in On dirt cars, both rear corners can move quite a bit, so the link angles on both sides are important. how and why to corner balance a car. front left and Race Tires: Are You Ready to Spend Some Money? It's If we make equal and opposite changes to each side to change the ride heights and do both the front and rear together, then the process will move along faster. Always record the cross-weights and ride heights for reference at the race track in case changes are needed. The process is so basic to the setup of the car. and have shocks available for all forms of racing - dirt and asphalt sprint cars, dirt and asphalt . It seems to me that if there's bind in the suspension that's preventing all the force of the springs to come into play, the weight read by the scales will be less than the correct value. spread when the car is lowered onto the scales. Equal weight on each front wheel, same on the rear. Maybe there's some sort of bind in the scales. Softer tire compound Right Rear Increase Right front and left rear Corner Weights Bicycling Left side tires lose contact with the racing surface More overall left side weight % The LF needs to go up 0.3125 and the RF needs to go down the same amount.
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